16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Request help / support from others for WG3 NT
hdt
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:27 pm

16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by hdt »

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has tried to get 16bit module working with MajorBBS v10 (WG 3.x) with NTVDMx64 on a 64bit Windows 10 or 11?

User avatar
BlaZ
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:24 am
Location: Peoria, IL
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by BlaZ »

That wouldn't work. Major BBS v10 will only run the 32-bit NT modules. It is possible to link to a Major BBS 6.25 (DOS) install running in DMA mode in order to run some of those modules, but that is likely not the solution you would want.

Questman
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:12 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by Questman »

Wouldn't work on WG3.2 either, to be honest. The modules aren't "doors", they're part of the single executable's runtime.
Founder, The Major BBS Restoration Project
Owner, Elwynor Technologies ISV
Former Owner, Galacticomm IP (2005-2020)
Contributor, Galacticomm IP baseline

daniel_spain
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:39 am

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by daniel_spain »

Questman wrote:
> Wouldn't work on WG3.2 either, to be honest. The modules aren't
> "doors", they're part of the single executable's runtime.

but hypothetically couldnt something be created to "mimic" the runtime?
i only ask because back in 2013 i worked with Sylvain to get his game-master bbs
back up after he retired from vircom so he could offer TA97 for play and he mentioned
something about a frontend to accept the connection and then enter the module.
maybe they did an emulator of some sort? now i know file api between dos/nt
some of it is incompatible but couldnt something be created within the major bbs 10 kernel
excuse me... core, and it could detect an older module and maybe do something similiar?
not my expertise so just spitballing here. but DOSBOX does something like this to offer
old dos games well they dont GOG.COM does and when you load the game it launches
within dosbox and runs. just thinking "maybe" something like this could work?

Questman
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:12 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by Questman »

Well sure - Vircom DMA was exactly that, right? Logging you into a separate system theoretically. So you could run DOS-based modules on a NT-based system. I wish we had the source code to it.

I wouldn't doubt that the emulator stuff that other project is working on could be adapted to run as a module itself and allow you to plug 16-bit modules into it for execution within the 32bit board. But they've never really been about the community as much as doing their own thing for their own reasons.
Founder, The Major BBS Restoration Project
Owner, Elwynor Technologies ISV
Former Owner, Galacticomm IP (2005-2020)
Contributor, Galacticomm IP baseline

User avatar
BlaZ
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:24 am
Location: Peoria, IL
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by BlaZ »

Yes, getting "the other project" working as an internal emulator would be great. Since their project has the source code available, perhaps it wouldn't require their cooperation. I don't know how they've released it.

At present, it's very unstable whenever I have tried it, and it seems they have decided to focus almost solely on support for running the 6.25 versions of MajorMUD.

BlaZ

Questman
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:12 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by Questman »

BlaZ wrote:
> Yes, getting "the other project" working as an internal emulator
> would be great. Since their project has the source code available, perhaps
> it wouldn't require their cooperation. I don't know how they've released
> it.
>
> At present, it's very unstable whenever I have tried it, and it seems they
> have decided to focus almost solely on support for running the 6.25
> versions of MajorMUD.
>
> BlaZ

A lot of what they focus on -- and this is my observation, not a fact -- is running modules without their activation codes even if the module is generally available. MajorMUD probably isn't in that category any longer, though.

I'd prefer their cooperation.
Founder, The Major BBS Restoration Project
Owner, Elwynor Technologies ISV
Former Owner, Galacticomm IP (2005-2020)
Contributor, Galacticomm IP baseline

User avatar
Duckula
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:19 am

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by Duckula »

To be fair to the 'other project' and Eric, we have been in discussions about this very topic. One of the most significant challenges is making the required changes to v10 as there would need to be a transfer of information between the two.

With a lack of developers on our side, it is difficult to facilitate this.
-- Duckula

// Site admin
// Galacticomm IP owner

User avatar
enusbaum
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:47 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by enusbaum »

Hey Folks!

MBBSEmu is open sourced under the permissive MIT license, so feel free to submit a PR or fork and do with what you please! :)

As Duckula said, we've been in discussion on ways we could integrate the emulator more closely with the v10 (and beyond) package then the currently available Rlogin functionality. It's not an insignificant effort as events+memory would need to be shared between the two processes, but I think the end result could be a new framework in which modules could be developed. A more modern SDK if you will, designed for a cross-platform compatible IPC.

Our goal with the emulation project is to allow easy access to the older, 16-bit modules. I never viewed MBBSEmu as any form of competition with v10. If anything I think they complement each other and together give sysops access to run essentially *EVERY* module released for MBBS/WG, not just those ported to WG3NT.
Developer, Reverse Engineer, MBBS/WG Enthusiast
Maintainer of The MajorBBS Emulation Project (MBBSEmu)

daniel_spain
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:39 am

Re: 16bit Modules on 64bit Windows

Post by daniel_spain »

Questman wrote:
> Well sure - Vircom DMA was exactly that, right? Logging you into a separate
> system theoretically. So you could run DOS-based modules on a NT-based
> system. I wish we had the source code to it.
>
> I wouldn't doubt that the emulator stuff that other project is working on
> could be adapted to run as a module itself and allow you to plug 16-bit
> modules into it for execution within the 32bit board. But they've never
> really been about the community as much as doing their own thing for their
> own reasons.

i worked on him for a while when he left he got to keep all the majorbbs stuff
even gave me a license for everything so yeah if you had a major bbs running
the dma server and used the wg v3 dma client you could do it.
i was just thinking "again not my cup of tea" that something could be done within
v10 but yeah like you said a dma setup would suffice.

Post Reply