Metro Jumping Ship?

[Malakai]

It seems as though metro gameport is selling off all of their BBS systems and game servers, as well as majormud to the highest bidder. What will happen to all of their other mods? SOC, Mutants, T-LORD, LORD, LORD II, TEOS, Rose COG, Chess, Othello, Backgammon, Checkers, Crosswordz, Farwest trivia, Lords of Cyberspace, Wheel of Fame, etc...

I'm sure they're probably all up for sale, but what happens if they don't sell them?

[frcorey]

Tell Rick.
some have gotton discusted and just tossed the source code out. thats how a lot of wg and mbbs stuff got lost.

[Questman]

They're talking to people.

[dspain]

It seems as though metro gameport is selling off all of their BBS systems and game servers, as well as majormud to the highest bidder. What will happen to all of their other mods? SOC, Mutants, T-LORD, LORD, LORD II, TEOS, Rose COG, Chess, Othello, Backgammon, Checkers, Crosswordz, Farwest trivia, Lords of Cyberspace, Wheel of Fame, etc...

I'm sure they're probably all up for sale, but what happens if they don't sell them?

what do you expect, i mean look at majormud as is now, look at the simple crashable bugs they fail to fix. all they talk about is working on this and working on that yet wheres the progress???

the rest of the modules arent a big issue, majormud is the one people will battle for.

good to see em stepping down maybe someone can finally fix their mistakes.

[Malakai]

It could be a lot worse than metro owning these mods.. Some one could actually get it and hold it hostage... no new registrations and no new fixes.. They should just release at least everything else besides majormud and lord as freeware.

I'm sure metro hasn't sold any copies of ROSE COG, othello, backgammon, crosswordz, farwest trivia, logmaster, Lords of Cyberspace, chess/checkers, wheel of fame, etc in many years and probably no copies of SOC either... I'd highly doubt they have sold many copies of majormud in the last 3 or 4 years either.

Metro is getting rid of their massive game servers and BBSes too, because BBS popularity and funds are drying up. Let's face it.. The BBS era has all but come to an end... If you're a pay BBS or pay BBS door game author, it's pretty much over for you. The only thing left will be hobbiest boards.

[dspain]

It could be a lot worse than metro owning these mods.. Some one could actually get it and hold it hostage... no new registrations and no new fixes.. They should just release at least everything else besides majormud and lord as freeware.

I'm sure metro hasn't sold any copies of ROSE COG, othello, backgammon, crosswordz, farwest trivia, logmaster, Lords of Cyberspace, chess/checkers, wheel of fame, etc in many years and probably no copies of SOC either... I'd highly doubt they have sold many copies of majormud in the last 3 or 4 years either.

Metro is getting rid of their massive game servers and BBSes too, because BBS popularity and funds are drying up. Let's face it.. The BBS era has all but come to an end... If you're a pay BBS or pay BBS door game author, it's pretty much over for you. The only thing left will be hobbiest boards.

i half agree with you. and pay bbs;s with good majormud and soon with the new tele-arena and WGME will have success.

look at cedar valley, 50+ paying online last time i was online, and before i dropped out of the wg2 tele-arena scene i averaged 30+ online all buying credits atleast 3 times a week.

bbs's are only drying up for the ones that dont have an element they can add which is creativity in the old games that made it successful.

most door games are turned based, take wg muds that you can play all day and people will come.

all ya need is something to attract them.

[Malakai]

The way I see it is like this... In 1994, everything was A-OK in the BBS world.. when 1997 came around, most bbses fell off the face of the earth. There were only two things that swayed BBS visitors from BBS systems: the world wide web and cheaper internet prices. 99% of BBS visitors and SysOPs left the BBS world over those two little things. Of course, the Internet isn't so little any more, but my point is that if people will leave something they love so much for so little, it just doesn't leave a lot of hope for anyone.

There could probably be a little more to it like... You could probably break down those BBS visitors in two classes... the first classes were high school and college students..... The next class would be the older people, sometimes singles, that just liked to hang around chat or trivia rooms...

I believe some of those high school and college students, from high school they either married or went to college and moved on with their lives, away from BBS systems, to never even think of them any more... some of the high school students probably moved away to college or got married or both, but basically the same thing.... just forgot about BBS systems...

Then, there were a select few that still reminisce about those days..
The only thing we can do is hope that the people that frequent BBSes keep logging on to BBSes for a long time and do not die in the next 10 years or more, because high school kids aren't coming to BBS systems, when they have IPODS, Iphones, Xbox 360s, 3.6ghz quad core processors, and world of warcraft.

Those 99% of BBS users that left in 1997 took a big dump on BBS Sysops, and inturn, BBS Sysops took a big dump on isvs and bbs software developers, and then the ISVs took a bit crap on the select few sysops and bbs users that were still around - chain reaction, the domino effect, business 101, whatever.

Most people now days don't even know what a BBS system is. Hell, someone only a couple years younger than I am asked me one time what I was talking about when when I mentioned having a c-band satellite system. C-Band satellite systems were popular from the 80s til primestar and other small dish companies started taking over. Until about 2005, receivers were still made new for big dish systems, but if people don't even know what a c-band satellite dish is, how in the world are they going to know what a BBS is?

I've tried to get family and friends to try out my bbs a few times.. a few actually made it online, but they were overwelmed (or underwelmed, who knows) and really didn't know what they were suppose to do.... You tell them, but all they see is text...... They don't know what to think...

Most people live in a different world, a world with camera phones, mp3 players, and high graphic games. Many people today are even allowed to get on the Internet while at work or at the office.... That type of stuff didn't happen much 15 years ago, with out some sneaking around behind the boss's back.

I suppose I'm one of the 1% that wanted to stick it out with BBS systems, and imagine my surprise one day, after a bit of absence from the BBS world, I pulled up my bbs phone book, dialed about 50 bbs systems, and only like 1 or 2 were still online..At one time, I called about 50 local boards in a week's time and several long distance ones, and a couple telnet boards.

Even last year, there were probably around 15 people logging in to majormud at high society at any given time, but the last few times I logged in, there were only a handful. In fact, I logged in just a minute ago, and there were only six people playing. That's half or so less than last year...x-bit bbs is another example... two or three years ago, it was probably the biggest and best non-worldgroup or mbbs board around, but now, you're lucky to find 3 or 4 people online, and many times, you're the only one or two online.. Before, it wasn't uncommon to find 12 or 15 people online at any given time.

If Sysops and visitors of BBSes of the past would have really taught their children, wives, husbands, younger siblings, etc about the ways of the BBS, then things may have been better, but the BBS ways have been shunned.

I think the only way a BBS can survive now days is probably for BBS owners to work together, to make sure each BBS system offers just a little something different, to bring diversity (not just as in features, games, mods, but also in ideas) to each BBS. Friendly competition is good, but unfriendly competition means that some one has to win and another one has to lose. We can't afford to lose many more BBS systems, and more importantly, the people that come online to play on them...

[dspain]

The way I see it is like this... In 1994, everything was A-OK in the BBS world.. when 1997 came around, most bbses fell off the face of the earth. There were only two things that swayed BBS visitors from BBS systems: the world wide web and cheaper internet prices. 99% of BBS visitors and SysOPs left the BBS world over those two little things. Of course, the Internet isn't so little any more, but my point is that if people will leave something they love so much for so little, it just doesn't leave a lot of hope for anyone.

There could probably be a little more to it like... You could probably break down those BBS visitors in two classes... the first classes were high school and college students..... The next class would be the older people, sometimes singles, that just liked to hang around chat or trivia rooms...

I believe some of those high school and college students, from high school they either married or went to college and moved on with their lives, away from BBS systems, to never even think of them any more... some of the high school students probably moved away to college or got married or both, but basically the same thing.... just forgot about BBS systems...

Then, there were a select few that still reminisce about those days..
The only thing we can do is hope that the people that frequent BBSes keep logging on to BBSes for a long time and do not die in the next 10 years or more, because high school kids aren't coming to BBS systems, when they have IPODS, Iphones, Xbox 360s, 3.6ghz quad core processors, and world of warcraft.

Those 99% of BBS users that left in 1997 took a big dump on BBS Sysops, and inturn, BBS Sysops took a big dump on isvs and bbs software developers, and then the ISVs took a bit crap on the select few sysops and bbs users that were still around - chain reaction, the domino effect, business 101, whatever.

Most people now days don't even know what a BBS system is. Hell, someone only a couple years younger than I am asked me one time what I was talking about when when I mentioned having a c-band satellite system. C-Band satellite systems were popular from the 80s til primestar and other small dish companies started taking over. Until about 2005, receivers were still made new for big dish systems, but if people don't even know what a c-band satellite dish is, how in the world are they going to know what a BBS is?

I've tried to get family and friends to try out my bbs a few times.. a few actually made it online, but they were overwelmed (or underwelmed, who knows) and really didn't know what they were suppose to do.... You tell them, but all they see is text...... They don't know what to think...

Most people live in a different world, a world with camera phones, mp3 players, and high graphic games. Many people today are even allowed to get on the Internet while at work or at the office.... That type of stuff didn't happen much 15 years ago, with out some sneaking around behind the boss's back.

I suppose I'm one of the 1% that wanted to stick it out with BBS systems, and imagine my surprise one day, after a bit of absence from the BBS world, I pulled up my bbs phone book, dialed about 50 bbs systems, and only like 1 or 2 were still online..At one time, I called about 50 local boards in a week's time and several long distance ones, and a couple telnet boards.

Even last year, there were probably around 15 people logging in to majormud at high society at any given time, but the last few times I logged in, there were only a handful. In fact, I logged in just a minute ago, and there were only six people playing. That's half or so less than last year...x-bit bbs is another example... two or three years ago, it was probably the biggest and best non-worldgroup or mbbs board around, but now, you're lucky to find 3 or 4 people online, and many times, you're the only one or two online.. Before, it wasn't uncommon to find 12 or 15 people online at any given time.

If Sysops and visitors of BBSes of the past would have really taught their children, wives, husbands, younger siblings, etc about the ways of the BBS, then things may have been better, but the BBS ways have been shunned.

I think the only way a BBS can survive now days is probably for BBS owners to work together, to make sure each BBS system offers just a little something different, to bring diversity (not just as in features, games, mods, but also in ideas) to each BBS. Friendly competition is good, but unfriendly competition means that some one has to win and another one has to lose. We can't afford to lose many more BBS systems, and more importantly, the people that come online to play on them...

exactly, thats why i been making this new tele-arena game (with ricks permission) completely redone and database driven and all databases can be edited online, my goal was to bring a popular game from wg dos to wgnt and at the same time making it easy for sysops to create their own design (areas,spells,items,etc) so each sysop would have something different. and im about 80% done just gotta add some smaller stuff and ill put a playable beta online on my server.

as far as 1997 being the year i agree, 97 it started but people still wanted bbs's i'd say the big decline hit between 1999-2000
i resurfaced to the bbs scene in october of 2000 and was like where did they all go, lol

[banjaxster]

If anyone has missed whats been going on with Metro,MMUD, and Greater Mud goto http://users.boardnation.com/~entconn/index.php#4
After you sign up goto coop this is where all the sysops,players,and interested people find out news.
As of now we are waiting from word on if metro has taken the bid on MMUD that was offered.
Also there are discussions on WG, Greater MUD, and WG addons.
Jack

[dspain]

If anyone has missed whats been going on with Metro,MMUD, and Greater Mud goto http://users.boardnation.com/~entconn/index.php#4
After you sign up goto coop this is where all the sysops,players,and interested people find out news.
As of now we are waiting from word on if metro has taken the bid on MMUD that was offered.
Also there are discussions on WG, Greater MUD, and WG addons.
Jack

yeah i been in talks with the bidder prior to their submission, its nothing but good news for the majormud community.
i didnt ask if they wanted everything or were singling out majormud im gonna email them now i didnt know they had already submitted.

[banjaxster]

The coop of Sysops has submitted a bid to metro with Mike of ENTCONN as their spokesman.
The big announcement metro was saying was they are selling their boards, then mud and probably the rest.
We have heard they was another bidder and it was rumored that the cost for mmud alone was $5000.
Last we heard Shannon said all the boards haven't been sold and that metro won't sell mmud until they are.
So now we all wait on Metro again as usual.

[frcorey]

The coop of Sysops has submitted a bid to metro with Mike of ENTCONN as their spokesman.
The big announcement metro was saying was they are selling their boards, then mud and probably the rest.
We have heard they was another bidder and it was rumored that the cost for mmud alone was $5000.
Last we heard Shannon said all the boards haven't been sold and that metro won't sell mmud until they are.
So now we all wait on Metro again as usual.

only 5gs? thats scary when they were asking 2gs for a full setup. but I hope the code isnt hosed now.

[dspain]

The coop of Sysops has submitted a bid to metro with Mike of ENTCONN as their spokesman.
The big announcement metro was saying was they are selling their boards, then mud and probably the rest.
We have heard they was another bidder and it was rumored that the cost for mmud alone was $5000.
Last we heard Shannon said all the boards haven't been sold and that metro won't sell mmud until they are.
So now we all wait on Metro again as usual.

only 5gs? thats scary when they were asking 2gs for a full setup. but I hope the code isnt hosed now.

thats been rumored for a while now that they screwed up the code.
5k though i doubt i know someone that offered 10 just back in january and they said that wouldnt cover the money they have invested alone.
but they could be in a bind now and need the money.

if they were smart they would sell the rights to sell licensing for the 5 and the code for a bunch more, they would get it too.

[frcorey]

The coop of Sysops has submitted a bid to metro with Mike of ENTCONN as their spokesman.
The big announcement metro was saying was they are selling their boards, then mud and probably the rest.
We have heard they was another bidder and it was rumored that the cost for mmud alone was $5000.
Last we heard Shannon said all the boards haven't been sold and that metro won't sell mmud until they are.
So now we all wait on Metro again as usual.

only 5gs? thats scary when they were asking 2gs for a full setup. but I hope the code isnt hosed now.

thats been rumored for a while now that they screwed up the code.
5k though i doubt i know someone that offered 10 just back in january and they said that wouldnt cover the money they have invested alone.
but they could be in a bind now and need the money.

if they were smart they would sell the rights to sell licensing for the 5 and the code for a bunch more, they would get it too.

prolly worth 5k just for the game world rights.

[Malakai]

This licensing to sell the games on percentages is a terrible idea for something so old. Why? Because you still have to sell it for a price the company wants you to and give them most of the profits.

For a company selling mmud for almost $2000 for the baseline and all of the mods, and for what people want to buy mmud for now days ($50-$200 w/all mods) this is another wall.

The next wall, obviously, is this whole worldgroup/mbbs fiasco. Two companies and 100,000 banks claiming ownership, one company selling the windows version only, another not selling it at all. With out wg/mbbs, mmud is useless.

$5000 for MMUD? Yeah, it may sound like not enough, but MMUD is how many years old? and running on an obsolete engine that's even older... I'd be willing to bet that Metro hasn't sold over 1 copy of mmud the last year. Some people even say that metro messed up the source code so that it is unfixable without a complete rewrite. Their resources are drying up for a reason... They're probably making more money off of LORD door game sales than mmud, and that's really not enough to keep them from going under or finding new investments away from bbs systems.

If the prices of MMUD would have come down to around $200 for a complete mmud package, they would have sold at least a few more copies (including 1 to me) but they were greedy and didn't adjust the prices for the times.

Sales would have slowed and would eventually come to a halt anyway, but anything to keep bbsing alive for a few more years would have been great for the bbs community. Like I said before, going around to various bbs systems, it really seems like BBS visitors have halved in the last year or two.

[dspain]

This licensing to sell the games on percentages is a terrible idea for something so old. Why? Because you still have to sell it for a price the company wants you to and give them most of the profits.

For a company selling mmud for almost $2000 for the baseline and all of the mods, and for what people want to buy mmud for now days ($50-$200 w/all mods) this is another wall.

The next wall, obviously, is this whole worldgroup/mbbs fiasco. Two companies and 100,000 banks claiming ownership, one company selling the windows version only, another not selling it at all. With out wg/mbbs, mmud is useless.

$5000 for MMUD? Yeah, it may sound like not enough, but MMUD is how many years old? and running on an obsolete engine that's even older... I'd be willing to bet that Metro hasn't sold over 1 copy of mmud the last year. Some people even say that metro messed up the source code so that it is unfixable without a complete rewrite. Their resources are drying up for a reason... They're probably making more money off of LORD door game sales than mmud, and that's really not enough to keep them from going under or finding new investments away from bbs systems.

If the prices of MMUD would have come down to around $200 for a complete mmud package, they would have sold at least a few more copies (including 1 to me) but they were greedy and didn't adjust the prices for the times.

Sales would have slowed and would eventually come to a halt anyway, but anything to keep bbsing alive for a few more years would have been great for the bbs community. Like I said before, going around to various bbs systems, it really seems like BBS visitors have halved in the last year or two.

the majormud engine is far from obsolete, and ill say it again as i have years in the past, WG isnt going anywhere.
yeah it may be over priced but the bottom line is people said it would die off in 1999 and here he are 9 years later and its still going strong.
about rick and the ownership issues regardless of new registrations there is still over 100 bbs's out there running Wg and ya know what? no new registrations isnt such a bad thing.
look at synchronet, everybody and their brother has one, and look at games for Wg vs door games, Wg games are far superior.

and unfixable without a complete re-write is nonsense, metro doesnt need majormud to turn investments, they are a finance company they got money, what they are doing is moving on, why keep holding a product that they dont have time to keep imprioving? let someone else do it.

and what do you mean adjust the prices to the times? majormud 256 for WGNT is 700 dollars. i dont personally play nor have i ever but thats not all that bad considering with the right customizations you will gain traffic.

bbsing nor Wg will ever go anywhere, in 20yrs bbs;s will still be online and WG will still be being used.

and again about the money and the times, lets look at how easy it was to get ahold of 700 10 yrs ago vs today.

McDonalds cashiers are making 8 bucks an hour nowadays where 10yrs ago they made 4.35 an hr,

[dspain]

only 5gs? thats scary when they were asking 2gs for a full setup. but I hope the code isnt hosed now.

thats been rumored for a while now that they screwed up the code.
5k though i doubt i know someone that offered 10 just back in january and they said that wouldnt cover the money they have invested alone.
but they could be in a bind now and need the money.

if they were smart they would sell the rights to sell licensing for the 5 and the code for a bunch more, they would get it too.

prolly worth 5k just for the game world rights.

i totally agree, 5k is a smack in the face.
rather people like the prices or not look at the time invested in writing that thing.

[Malakai]

When BBS visitors halved between last year and this year, the price should have at least halved as well. I'll say it before and I'll say it again. MajorMud and all of its mods aren't worth $1800. I doubt if they were back then. Why? So many struggling BBS systems that many thought were actually turning a large profit couldn't because of all of these overpriced mods, not to mention the system itself and the hardware, phone lines, and internet lines they had to buy.

There use to be a huge BBS near me called Dragon Keep. It was credit based, and I knew at least one person that spent $100 a week on credits for it. At any given time, it could have have 64+ people on-line (ok, so it didnt' have 256 people, but they said that that they had 100 phone lines and 100 internet lines)...

The Sysop, who called himself Dragon, always said he didn't make one dime on this BBS, that all money went back into the board. I didn't believe this at the time, and neither did anyone else. He had pretty much every mod, every dma link, worldlink, chatlink, irc, you name it.

In 1997, (the end of bbses in this area) he started taking bits and pieces of his BBS and selling them off, to try to keep up. He was selling galactiboards and galactiboxes for like $25-$50 apiece, modems, cd towers, and then rumor has it that when the bbs finally went down, he owed over $50,000 still on Internet access. Why would an Internet company let him owe that much? It was suppose to be a friend of Dragon's, and he let him build up credit over the years. I think Dragon kept telling himself and others that Dragon Keep would come back and make the money back, but it never did.

As a last ditch effort to save the board, DK tried to become a dual service system, an ISP with the worldgroup client and stay as a bbs on the other. Why this didn't work out is because he kept the credit based system both ways. When you could get unlimited internet for $29 at the time somewhere else, it could cost you hundreds for the same at DK.

DK had MajorMud and Tele-arena, and neither saved them.

If you think WG is going strong, you have been fooled. The engine is obsolete and needs major updating. Even Rick has admitted that in the past. I've given my suggestions in the past about many aspects of WG that needed updating. Nothing was ever done by Rick or Don or Nate over there at netvillage... Nate's idea of updating the software is stamping their name and web address all over everything, adding some more bugs to worldgroup, and calling it 3.30nt.

Even with all of that being said, the only two problems I personally have with worldgroup (except it not being for sale) is the web server (or at least the applications built in to wg that run on the web side - i've told everyone about these bugs though so it's nothing new.) and the fact that it isn't self-reliant in all of its features. For example, the NNTP server... It shouldn't have to rely on someone else to push and pull feeds from the server.

The bleaker it looks, the more optimistic you are about its future, DSpain. That's how Dragon of Dragon Keep BBS was too...

[Malakai]

There is nothing wrong with Synchronet BBS, nor is there anything wrong with Synchronet being free. If nothing else, having a free BBS gives people a chance to try out at being Sysops, to see if they would really want to run one, AND it sells door games.

A customized Synchronet can look and work just as good if not better than worldgroup. If a Sysop spends a lot of time and effort in to making his/her system unique, then the BBS is more appealing than just the standard Synchronet command shells.

Even Rob told me one time that it would be easy to create a DMA-like server with Synchronet, that you'd just have to edit the rlogin client to add extra characters to the nick.

I'd imagine the reason why door games are less superior than WG games is because of DOS memory limits, but now days, I'd imagine a 32-bit door, if made correctly, could hold just as much information as a WG mod could.

-

This greatermud from Vitoc is actually saying his mud engine could pretty much replace worldgroup's engine as well. He says that you can pretty much convert any BBS game/mod on it and that it should be faster and more stable. He's already created a teleconference mod for it.

I've logged on to his mud, just to see how well it looks, and it looks and feels almost exactly like majormud. People are already asking about SOC and a few other BBS games.

This could possibly be worldgroup's replacement.

[dspain]

There is nothing wrong with Synchronet BBS, nor is there anything wrong with Synchronet being free. If nothing else, having a free BBS gives people a chance to try out at being Sysops, to see if they would really want to run one, AND it sells door games.

A customized Synchronet can look and work just as good if not better than worldgroup. If a Sysop spends a lot of time and effort in to making his/her system unique, then the BBS is more appealing than just the standard Synchronet command shells.

Even Rob told me one time that it would be easy to create a DMA-like server with Synchronet, that you'd just have to edit the rlogin client to add extra characters to the nick.

I'd imagine the reason why door games are less superior than WG games is because of DOS memory limits, but now days, I'd imagine a 32-bit door, if made correctly, could hold just as much information as a WG mod could.

-

This greatermud from Vitoc is actually saying his mud engine could pretty much replace worldgroup's engine as well. He says that you can pretty much convert any BBS game/mod on it and that it should be faster and more stable. He's already created a teleconference mod for it.

I've logged on to his mud, just to see how well it looks, and it looks and feels almost exactly like majormud. People are already asking about SOC and a few other BBS games.

This could possibly be worldgroup's replacement.

LOL thats too funny everyone says WG replacement to this and that and its not happened yet.
just b/c you don't agree with a price of something doesn't mean it should be free, or something else is gonna replace it.

ok
1) to use the hooks to load Wg modules you need permission

2) GM is awesome, but WG's replacement? come on, you cant honestly believe that??

again if you dont like WG move on, why argue about it?? its not going anywhere, and several sysops have said the same thing about it, just b/c its internet connectivity lacks some today-technology features doesnt mean nothing, its still far superior to o/s bbs packages.
just goto http://filewire.net with software like that they are here for the long haul.

[dspain]

When BBS visitors halved between last year and this year, the price should have at least halved as well. I'll say it before and I'll say it again. MajorMud and all of its mods aren't worth $1800. I doubt if they were back then. Why? So many struggling BBS systems that many thought were actually turning a large profit couldn't because of all of these overpriced mods, not to mention the system itself and the hardware, phone lines, and internet lines they had to buy.

There use to be a huge BBS near me called Dragon Keep. It was credit based, and I knew at least one person that spent $100 a week on credits for it. At any given time, it could have have 64+ people on-line (ok, so it didnt' have 256 people, but they said that that they had 100 phone lines and 100 internet lines)...

The Sysop, who called himself Dragon, always said he didn't make one dime on this BBS, that all money went back into the board. I didn't believe this at the time, and neither did anyone else. He had pretty much every mod, every dma link, worldlink, chatlink, irc, you name it.

In 1997, (the end of bbses in this area) he started taking bits and pieces of his BBS and selling them off, to try to keep up. He was selling galactiboards and galactiboxes for like $25-$50 apiece, modems, cd towers, and then rumor has it that when the bbs finally went down, he owed over $50,000 still on Internet access. Why would an Internet company let him owe that much? It was suppose to be a friend of Dragon's, and he let him build up credit over the years. I think Dragon kept telling himself and others that Dragon Keep would come back and make the money back, but it never did.

As a last ditch effort to save the board, DK tried to become a dual service system, an ISP with the worldgroup client and stay as a bbs on the other. Why this didn't work out is because he kept the credit based system both ways. When you could get unlimited internet for $29 at the time somewhere else, it could cost you hundreds for the same at DK.

DK had MajorMud and Tele-arena, and neither saved them.

If you think WG is going strong, you have been fooled. The engine is obsolete and needs major updating. Even Rick has admitted that in the past. I've given my suggestions in the past about many aspects of WG that needed updating. Nothing was ever done by Rick or Don or Nate over there at netvillage... Nate's idea of updating the software is stamping their name and web address all over everything, adding some more bugs to worldgroup, and calling it 3.30nt.

Even with all of that being said, the only two problems I personally have with worldgroup (except it not being for sale) is the web server (or at least the applications built in to wg that run on the web side - i've told everyone about these bugs though so it's nothing new.) and the fact that it isn't self-reliant in all of its features. For example, the NNTP server... It shouldn't have to rely on someone else to push and pull feeds from the server.

The bleaker it looks, the more optimistic you are about its future, DSpain. That's how Dragon of Dragon Keep BBS was too...

majormud not worth 1800? dont pay it. the sysops that did are averaging 50+ users right now.
hell i was on a system last night to upload a custom module i did for the sysop and there 140 people online.
wy do you keep saying WG is dying? you been saying this as long as i can remember and others been saying it since the year 1998...umm still here.

and 3.30 has bugs? so does 3.20, 3.13,3.12,3.0,2.0,1.01,1.00
all of em have had bugs since the early galacticomm era.
thats software development for ya.
but you can install it out the box and run it.

we all know your take on WG it should be free or open sourced.
thats not gonna happen.

if you dont like it run synchronet and be one of the 10,000 sysops out there.
when everyone runs a bbs why connect to another one?


and another thing, unless you use your server to run a business its a hobby, and i dont know too many free hobbies in the world.

my neighbor builds race cars for the hell of it. dont race them, just lets em sit and look pretty. an expensive hobby but he enjoys it.

[Malakai]

As for my BBS, there's a reason I call it Nostalgia BBS. It's about the past, the good times, remembrance of a time when BBS systems were everywhere and about community. It wasn't about majormud, although many bbs systems had it.. It was a time when many of the other bbs games got played as much if not more than MMUD... Games like mutants, farwest trivia, lord, bre, and others thrived.

When Nostalgia BBS comes back up, I have no unrealistic expectations for the BBS. I have put hundreds of hours in to the BBS in the past and will put probably 100 more into it before it's back on-line. I've even got to put about $300 worth of hardware into it before it comes back, if not more.

Nostalgia BBS, when it first came on-line, I spent a lot of time on-line with the BBS, chatting and playing games, but this time around, I'm setting it up to pretty much run itself, as I don't have a lot of time on my hands any more, because of so many other projects. I have a life away from worldgroup.

Nostalgia BBS isn't about system wars. In fact, I was considering running PCBoard of Synchronet before setting up worldgroup. We're not about BBS systems and could care less who thinks which BBS software is better than the other. The wars were fine when commercial bbs software makers were out there battling it out for the 15,000+ bbs systems out there, but that's not the cast any more.

Even Synchronet back then was considered low on the totem pole, compared to PCBoard and various others, but look at it today. It has more features than pcboard or many of the other boards out there ever had.

You probably think that I'm trying to ruin worldgroup or at least ruin BBSes in general for you, but I'm not. I run worldgroup myself, and while there are a few things I'd like to see updated, you just can't always have it both ways.

You are also forgetting that in order for everything to go smoothly, you have a chain... ISV, SYSOP, VISITORS... The Visitors dictate what the Sysop does, mods he/she buys, etc.. and the less money the Sysop spends, the less mods the ISVs build... Even if Sysops didn't give up, and ISVs didn't *want* to give up, the visitors still dictate both, and we're talking about hobby systems, not pay.. Sysops won't keep pouring in hundreds or thousands of dollars in a system that is getting less visitors each day as opposed to more, even if they have spare money. Instead, they'll put that money in to savings or more appropriate hobbies.

But you are trying to make me seem like I'm trying to kill off worldgroup. I'm just a realist, and I consider most BBS systems as Museum pieces, and most visitors are just visitors who reminisce about the past, just like I and many others have and probably many others before me.

[dspain]

As for my BBS, there's a reason I call it Nostalgia BBS. It's about the past, the good times, remembrance of a time when BBS systems were everywhere and about community. It wasn't about majormud, although many bbs systems had it.. It was a time when many of the other bbs games got played as much if not more than MMUD... Games like mutants, farwest trivia, lord, bre, and others thrived.

When Nostalgia BBS comes back up, I have no unrealistic expectations for the BBS. I have put hundreds of hours in to the BBS in the past and will put probably 100 more into it before it's back on-line. I've even got to put about $300 worth of hardware into it before it comes back, if not more.

Nostalgia BBS, when it first came on-line, I spent a lot of time on-line with the BBS, chatting and playing games, but this time around, I'm setting it up to pretty much run itself, as I don't have a lot of time on my hands any more, because of so many other projects. I have a life away from worldgroup.

Nostalgia BBS isn't about system wars. In fact, I was considering running PCBoard of Synchronet before setting up worldgroup. We're not about BBS systems and could care less who thinks which BBS software is better than the other. The wars were fine when commercial bbs software makers were out there battling it out for the 15,000+ bbs systems out there, but that's not the cast any more.

Even Synchronet back then was considered low on the totem pole, compared to PCBoard and various others, but look at it today. It has more features than pcboard or many of the other boards out there ever had.

You probably think that I'm trying to ruin worldgroup or at least ruin BBSes in general for you, but I'm not. I run worldgroup myself, and while there are a few things I'd like to see updated, you just can't always have it both ways.

You are also forgetting that in order for everything to go smoothly, you have a chain... ISV, SYSOP, VISITORS... The Visitors dictate what the Sysop does, mods he/she buys, etc.. and the less money the Sysop spends, the less mods the ISVs build... Even if Sysops didn't give up, and ISVs didn't *want* to give up, the visitors still dictate both, and we're talking about hobby systems, not pay.. Sysops won't keep pouring in hundreds or thousands of dollars in a system that is getting less visitors each day as opposed to more, even if they have spare money. Instead, they'll put that money in to savings or more appropriate hobbies.

But you are trying to make me seem like I'm trying to kill off worldgroup. I'm just a realist, and I consider most BBS systems as Museum pieces, and most visitors are just visitors who reminisce about the past, just like I and many others have and probably many others before me.

you're kidding right? you calling me on my userbase? im not even gonna get into this, umm toyduck is a user here, ask him how many times we sat in my tele with a ton of other users who left the game to see what i was talking to him about.
the site you went to is free my other site is subscription only.

and 100 systems running Wg dont exist? are you serious?
lets see

me,you,toyduck,ghalleon,mudbbs.org,cupid's playpen,cupid's den,the keep,cedar valley,cedarnet,roughneck,dream matches,randy's bbs hostleasing.net or something, firechat, deathblow, kewl bbs, thats just right off my head im sure if i did a search i could turn up a ton more.

i dont think you're trying to ruin anything by far hell i got synchronet 2 of em to be exact.
1 runs a door server, and one runs another rlogin server for nntp,fidonet,etc... and i even paid to register synchronet back in the day had a 2 user at first then upgraded to 16.

and about tele-arena having more registrations, i dont want that, thats what killed ta in the 90's every bbs had one.

and believe me as an ISV no we dont make money like we used to i've accepted it, i keep the community going by doing free work.
how many other ISV's out there are making custom modules for free?
just me im the only one i do what i can to keep the community going, hell i even re-dod GE from the ground up as an NT module and hope to get ricks approval to distro it.
im not trying to come down on ya its just that yeah WG is overpriced, and yeah it needs to be brought up to date, but as it is right now can run a good bbs with no problems.

as far as the internet stuff i have redid most of it except the web server but im working with an ASP developer who is helping me to add some things to it like PDF translation, the ability to export to search engine databases with a small perl addon, i was gonna tinker with cgi scripting but found too many vulerabilities with it.

[Toyduck]

1 runs a door server, and one runs another rlogin server for nntp,fidonet,etc... and i even paid to register synchronet back in the day had a 2 user at first then upgraded to 16.


im not trying to come down on ya its just that yeah WG is overpriced, and yeah it needs to be brought up to date, but as it is right now can run a good bbs with no problems.

as far as the internet stuff i have redid most of it except the web server but im working with an ASP developer who is helping me to add some things to it like PDF translation, the ability to export to search engine databases with a small perl addon, i was gonna tinker with cgi scripting but found too many vulnerabilities with it.

Actually, WG is just a tool among many different tools Sysops can use to create an online experience. I bought my first copy from Galacticomm when they were in Vegas at Comdex, version 5.0. I ran is alongside a RBBS system and a Wildcat system I had. Each system had it's strengths and weaknesses and you worked to take advantage of the strengths of each (at least I did). I never did find one all encompassing system that did everything I wanted.

As for price, well nothing is ever truly free. There always seems to be a gotcha somewhere . Besides, inflation over the past decades has raised software prices more than anything else. Our dollar just doesn't go as far as it did in the '80s.

[dspain]

1 runs a door server, and one runs another rlogin server for nntp,fidonet,etc... and i even paid to register synchronet back in the day had a 2 user at first then upgraded to 16.


im not trying to come down on ya its just that yeah WG is overpriced, and yeah it needs to be brought up to date, but as it is right now can run a good bbs with no problems.

as far as the internet stuff i have redid most of it except the web server but im working with an ASP developer who is helping me to add some things to it like PDF translation, the ability to export to search engine databases with a small perl addon, i was gonna tinker with cgi scripting but found too many vulnerabilities with it.

Actually, WG is just a tool among many different tools Sysops can use to create an online experience. I bought my first copy from Galacticomm when they were in Vegas at Comdex, version 5.0. I ran is alongside a RBBS system and a Wildcat system I had. Each system had it's strengths and weaknesses and you worked to take advantage of the strengths of each (at least I did). I never did find one all encompassing system that did everything I wanted.

As for price, well nothing is ever truly free. There always seems to be a gotcha somewhere . Besides, inflation over the past decades has raised software prices more than anything else. Our dollar just doesn't go as far as it did in the '80s.

QBBS/RBBS/RA i ran those breeds when i was gating fidonet, and doornet dds distro mail feeds.

majorbbs for high end games

wwiv then synchronet to funnel door games

the good ole days if you ask me, back when you could whip up a small addon say a global chat program sell it for $99 and sell about 12 copies within its first 2 weeks.

bbs's will come back only on a different level, its already started, theres more bbs's today than say in 2004, and so many software packages to choose from alot of different flavors alot are running as you did multiple packages to get the best effect.

[Toyduck]

The coop of Sysops has submitted a bid to metro with Mike of ENTCONN as their spokesman.
The big announcement metro was saying was they are selling their boards, then mud and probably the rest.
We have heard they was another bidder and it was rumored that the cost for mmud alone was $5000.
Last we heard Shannon said all the boards haven't been sold and that metro won't sell mmud until they are.
So now we all wait on Metro again as usual.

only 5gs? thats scary when they were asking 2gs for a full setup. but I hope the code isnt hosed now.

I've seen at a couple of places on the net that Metro has completed sale of it's BBS systems.

[Toyduck]

It seems as though metro gameport is selling off all of their BBS systems and game servers, as well as majormud to the highest bidder. What will happen to all of their other mods? SOC, Mutants, T-LORD, LORD, LORD II, TEOS, Rose COG, Chess, Othello, Backgammon, Checkers, Crosswordz, Farwest trivia, Lords of Cyberspace, Wheel of Fame, etc...

I'm sure they're probably all up for sale, but what happens if they don't sell them?

yankee
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Posts: 65

Re: Metropolis selling all BBS's
« Reply #15 on: Apr 9th, 2008, 10:54pm » Quote Quote Modify Modify
ok myself and my partner jave purchased the whole package. we are just waiting on delivery of it. unfortunatley it will be down about 3 weeks to get everything setup. we are planning on making alot of changes, including lower the price by 2/3 for the first few months and maiking alot of other positive changes to the bbs's. once we have everything up and running i will post the adress to telnet into on here. hope to see some new faces in the future, cause i think you will like what is commng.

Yankee

[Toyduck]

It seems as though metro gameport is selling off all of their BBS systems and game servers, as well as majormud to the highest bidder. What will happen to all of their other mods? SOC, Mutants, T-LORD, LORD, LORD II, TEOS, Rose COG, Chess, Othello, Backgammon, Checkers, Crosswordz, Farwest trivia, Lords of Cyberspace, Wheel of Fame, etc...

I'm sure they're probably all up for sale, but what happens if they don't sell them?

It seems Metro will not sell the forums, yet anyway.

Metro seeems to be cutting costs in the BBS market and may now think BBS's are a total loss of money.

So, here is the Metro announcement
=======================

Metropolis Entertainment is announcing that effective April 10th we will no
longer support our BBS Systems and are offering them for sale.
These systems include the three Worldgroup BBS systems, seven Worldgroup
game servers and their respective file servers. We would prefer to sell this
system as one package, but will consider offers on individual pieces. If
you are interested in making an offer or if you have questions about what's
included, please contact Shannon via email (shannon@majormud.com) or call
913-663-9633.

The sale does not include the development and internal beta systems for
MajorMUD development.

We will be shutting down those systems that have not been transferred on
April 10th and will refund any paid time remaining on subscriptions
("telnet" or "plan2" accounts).

We want to thank all of our valued customers for their years of support and
participation in the Metropolis community.

Systems Included:
Clubmet BBS
Masterpiece BBS
The Dump BBS
3 Novell File Servers
3 Snap Servers running as Novell Servers
Underground Game Server (undgs1)
Big 10 Game Server 2 (b10gs2)
Big 12 Game Server 2 (b12gs2)
Clubmet Game Server (metgs1)
The Louisville Connection Game Server (tlcgs1)
Rock Garden Game Server (rockgs1)
The Dump Game Server (dumpgs1)

[dspain]

It seems as though metro gameport is selling off all of their BBS systems and game servers, as well as majormud to the highest bidder. What will happen to all of their other mods? SOC, Mutants, T-LORD, LORD, LORD II, TEOS, Rose COG, Chess, Othello, Backgammon, Checkers, Crosswordz, Farwest trivia, Lords of Cyberspace, Wheel of Fame, etc...

I'm sure they're probably all up for sale, but what happens if they don't sell them?

yankee
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Posts: 65

Re: Metropolis selling all BBS's
« Reply #15 on: Apr 9th, 2008, 10:54pm » Quote Quote Modify Modify
ok myself and my partner jave purchased the whole package. we are just waiting on delivery of it. unfortunatley it will be down about 3 weeks to get everything setup. we are planning on making alot of changes, including lower the price by 2/3 for the first few months and maiking alot of other positive changes to the bbs's. once we have everything up and running i will post the adress to telnet into on here. hope to see some new faces in the future, cause i think you will like what is commng.

Yankee

whats he referring to the 'whole package?'

[Toyduck]

whats he referring to the 'whole package?'

Everything but MMUD. All of their equipment (servers) and software (WG and Novell) that the BBS's run on.

It doesn't include MMUD however.

[dspain]

whats he referring to the 'whole package?'

Everything but MMUD. All of their equipment (servers) and software (WG and Novell) that the BBS's run on.

It doesn't include MMUD however.

aaah, yeah so with that out the way i guess they will begin to sell off their ISV software.

[Gary Martin]

For some reason I was bored and poking around nostalgically of late. The Metropolis BBSes, software IPs and other such stuff have *NOT* been sold. I just got off the phone with Multiservice.

Contrary to the above quoted post, no one has purchased them at this point. Hasn't happened, dunno where that post came from originally but it is not correct.

[dspain]

For some reason I was bored and poking around nostalgically of late. The Metropolis BBSes, software IPs and other such stuff have *NOT* been sold. I just got off the phone with Multiservice.

Contrary to the above quoted post, no one has purchased them at this point. Hasn't happened, dunno where that post came from originally but it is not correct.

Shannon announced this on majormud.com forums last april.
we all knew it was a sham as they are by far the worst company to ever sell a product and all she did was lose a hell of a lot of support and pretty much paved the way for that greatermud's success.
she accepted peoples bids and played email tag with people for almost a year.

[Malakai]

Why would they do that? Are they ashamed that their userbases couldn't support their bbs systems and felt compelled to lie about selling them? The more I hear about Shannon, the more I don't like her. She basically took a dump on the whole majormud community in several ways, like promising a new mod and updates several years ago but never delivered on that promise, offering to sell majormud to the highest bidder but obviously never planned on doing that.

From what I've heard about Shannon from various sources (including entconn) I believe that Shannon thinks she owns majormud and has some delusion of wanting to market it as a graphical RPG in the future. She claims that she's passing on bids to her bosses, which are always either on vacation, out of town in a business meeting, or are moving to a new office and can't ever be talked to directly.

I believe Shannon is just the wall that's blocking any and all progress on Majormud. She's like a greedy little kid, wanting to own and control it, although nothing will ever happen to it while it's in her possession. It's no different than that dude that bought Barren realms elite, falcon's eye, falcon's honor, etc to make so-called improvements to it. The only thing he changed on it is the registration system and has got an auto-script that sends out registration codes when you pay through paypal. I believe wholeheartedly that some of the BRE series games would have been ported to worldgroup in the past if he wasn't so protective of the code and licensing. After all, they were the most popular door game series for awhile. He'll probably die with that source code, but he won't be able to take it with him when he goes lol.

A graphical RPG? Muds are generally generic with little or no storyline or plot. No one would pay metro licensing fees or royalties for that. Hell, they probably wouldn't even build a graphical or web game based off of majormud even if it were free of all licensing.

[dspain]

Why would they do that? Are they ashamed that their userbases couldn't support their bbs systems and felt compelled to lie about selling them? The more I hear about Shannon, the more I don't like her. She basically took a dump on the whole majormud community in several ways, like promising a new mod and updates several years ago but never delivered on that promise, offering to sell majormud to the highest bidder but obviously never planned on doing that.

From what I've heard about Shannon from various sources (including entconn) I believe that Shannon thinks she owns majormud and has some delusion of wanting to market it as a graphical RPG in the future. She claims that she's passing on bids to her bosses, which are always either on vacation, out of town in a business meeting, or are moving to a new office and can't ever be talked to directly.

I believe Shannon is just the wall that's blocking any and all progress on Majormud. She's like a greedy little kid, wanting to own and control it, although nothing will ever happen to it while it's in her possession. It's no different than that dude that bought Barren realms elite, falcon's eye, falcon's honor, etc to make so-called improvements to it. The only thing he changed on it is the registration system and has got an auto-script that sends out registration codes when you pay through paypal. I believe wholeheartedly that some of the BRE series games would have been ported to worldgroup in the past if he wasn't so protective of the code and licensing. After all, they were the most popular door game series for awhile. He'll probably die with that source code, but he won't be able to take it with him when he goes lol.

A graphical RPG? Muds are generally generic with little or no storyline or plot. No one would pay metro licensing fees or royalties for that. Hell, they probably wouldn't even build a graphical or web game based off of majormud even if it were free of all licensing.

yeah majormud is gone now, hell been gone, and GM well lets just say its not reccomended to remake someone elses intellectual property w/o their permission, ask Logicomm, they did it and it cost em.
im not aganst them i wish them all the success in the world in their game development but to tackle something like that you have to go about it in a variety of steps not just dive in and do it.

not to co-sign for shannon but i think theres more to it than her sitting on it i think a group of em are looking back at all the money they used to make and thinking that will happen agan if they just make people believe, their loss really, i got 2 muds coming out soon not to say they will be better than majormud but it will give sysops something to do, and atleast a real support base for the game.

shannon prolly got a bunch of offers and didnt like any of them, and i know for a fact one of the bids she got was for $20k for just the game's source code and all rights to develop/change/sell/etc....
another was for 10k and just development rights they could assume ownership they would develop the game and fix it.
if i were metro i would have considered that 20k, maybe not so much the 10, but the 20 definately.

as far as BRE,SRE,etc... John Dailey i think? yeah that man has issues, wonder if people are still changing the date of their PC to 1999 to reset sre? HAHAHA

alot of old door game authors are relinquishing code to a point where anyone with avid knowledge of the WG core can port one to an addon.

i made a door file creation program but couldnt mimic a dos session w/o extreme problems, so running doors internally is out of the question but with that doorserv program any WG sysop can run damn near any of them nowadays.


metro screwed up, its nothing new, thats what they do, we're used to it, they tried to breathe life in us and failed, we have learned to go on w/o them.

[Questman]

Most of the bids that came in were weak or unsubstantiated. Shannon is a good person - unfortunately, Shannon is not in charge. And they are not, and actually were not, interested in selling. It was apparently a rogue manager who started the process before he was let go.

[dspain]

Most of the bids that came in were weak or unsubstantiated. Shannon is a good person - unfortunately, Shannon is not in charge. And they are not, and actually were not, interested in selling. It was apparently a rogue manager who started the process before he was let go.

if they are not interested in selling anything why do they refuse to support their paying sysops? so many bugs with absolutely no fixes, when they purchased from WCC they guaranteed this type of thing wouldn't happen, not onlt did they guarantee that but the whole reason they bought it was so this wouldnt happen.

im sure there were a lot of "pick me pick me" emails but she had no business emailing people back making them believe she was considering their offer when in fact they weren't interested in selling.

this whole thing was handled very unprofessionally in my opinion and it totally made metro not look like a good company but a basement ran operation.

there are sysops who are still awaiting the rose fixes, soc fixes, majormud fixes, mutants fixes, i mean the list goes on.

they need to start thinking about people and not money. they bought this stuff when the market was hot and quite competitive ignored all MUDS they owned except majormud, fine eliminate the competition i get it.....
but then let their premier product go to hell claiming they didnt have a "developer" ok that was years ago im sure they could've found one by now.

some people just aren't good buisiness people, metro apparently does good commercial business with their credit operations but as far as game makers they are in the wrong field. they need to open a 3rd party agreement up just like they did with T-lord allow someone to do all the development and rather than pay them do a "per sale" commision.

[Malakai]

What gets me is that it appears that every one that talks to Shannon gets a different answer/reason why things went the way they did, as far as selling off majormud.

Of course, most of the stuff was handled unprofessionally on both sides. If you check out my last thread on entconn (one of the groups wanting to buy out majormud) I told them that they should have gotten a lawyer and put in a time limited bid. A lawyer would have been able to skip past Shannon and go straight to the owner, or at least their own lawyer, which would then pass it on to the owners.

I don't know who the developers of the mods or future bug fixes are, but I've heard from several people that Shannon is actually the one that was doing those things. There are also rumors that say that majormud pretty much hit its limit in terms of content, with the current "incorrectable bugs" that were in place, also what Shannon also supposedly told some one.

Who really knows the full picture? There seems to be a lot of lies and bologna going on at the metro customer service center...

[dspain]

What gets me is that it appears that every one that talks to Shannon gets a different answer/reason why things went the way they did, as far as selling off majormud.

Of course, most of the stuff was handled unprofessionally on both sides. If you check out my last thread on entconn (one of the groups wanting to buy out majormud) I told them that they should have gotten a lawyer and put in a time limited bid. A lawyer would have been able to skip past Shannon and go straight to the owner, or at least their own lawyer, which would then pass it on to the owners.

I don't know who the developers of the mods or future bug fixes are, but I've heard from several people that Shannon is actually the one that was doing those things. There are also rumors that say that majormud pretty much hit its limit in terms of content, with the current "incorrectable bugs" that were in place, also what Shannon also supposedly told some one.

Who really knows the full picture? There seems to be a lot of lies and bologna going on at the metro customer service center...

i heard something similiar from a very reliable source who prefers not be listed and they said they didnt know the "status" of future development but he knew for a fact they hit a problem with databasing and had all sorts of problems with btrieve, this could be something close to what you heard about content limits, though as a developer of 2 different WG database related games i havent hit any barriers like that but then again i dont buffer anything either, one of the biggest lag problem with MMUD was that it buffered EVERYTHING after my system inits HD light is still blinking hour after initialization.
so they may have hit that limit. its quite possible they tried eliminating the buffering and making it a true database engine and thats where they "screwed up" the codebase so many people claim they heard.

as Sysops we need to realize majormud is pretty much gone as far as new updates, etc...
not to plug my own product but the new Tele-Arena is pretty superior as far as gaming engine for WG especially with its ability to make all game edits on the fly and its powered by the WGME engine i wrote and is capable of so much more than the original, anyone with the right imagination could start fresh and make their own world come to life.
and i have no intention of going anywhere and dont think Rick does either so ill support it fully, i wanted to have a LIVE beta out by spring i already have the server ready just need to finish some databasing key elements.

and something i think Rick will agree with me on is keeping it cost efficient.

maybe the time has come to let go of MMUD as sad as that is, they dont wanna move forward with it or sell it.

what happened over the summer was wrong and Rick says she didnt initiate it, her best move would have been not to replay to those emails.
or even better accept only paper bids by fax or mail, ans yes a lawyer should have been used, when dealing with something as big as MMUD its no different than buying a company, you need to know do they have ownership? are there any liens, etc.....

[Questman]

She's a pawn in this. Unfortunately, she does what she is told. I believe that Shannon 100% cares about the users, customers, and the products, and wants the best for them, but ultimately the decision is the IP holders.

This is not different from Soft Arts, who refuse to sell the IP, and instead have decided it will rot on backups and RAID drives. And Vircom, too, to an extent, although they will sell unsupported copies for an arm and a leg, but not to new users, just existing users. And not to all of their products, just DMA. The rest? Toast.

You can only do what you can do - it doesn't pay for the GreaterMUD folks or anyone else to hire lawyers to make bids, or to overspend for the software. That's what got us into this mess in the first place - bidding wars for ISVs in the 1996-8 timeframe - now people think these products are worth something and they aren't.

Dan said it best above - this just makes GreaterMUD all the more relevant, MajorMUD less so, and there's really no way to turn these games into anything other than what they are.

Best thing to do is wait. Eventually they'll come around, or not, but it doesn't make sense to go nuts to do so.

[Drex]

Shannon is a good person

Shannon was always been an great help to me when I have had problems in the past, unfortunalty she may have got caught in the middle of this, I personally have no disrespect towards her, as she supplied help above and beyond for me.

[dspain]

Shannon is a good person

Shannon was always been an great help to me when I have had problems in the past, unfortunalty she may have got caught in the middle of this, I personally have no disrespect towards her, as she supplied help above and beyond for me.

i think alot of people are fueled off the recent controversy, i totally agree there should be no "disrespect" intended towards her as a person, biggest problem in all this was people wanted that source code and personally i think metro did a good job of pulling out, last thing we need is another Wg mod having the source code pasted all over the net which is exactly what would have happened.

one of these groups would get a scorned member who would put it on one site and boom the value of MMUD just went to less than a dollar.

if they were to sell they need to pay close attention of whom they sell to.

[Gardner Denver]

maybe the time has come to let go of MMUD as sad as that is, they dont wanna move forward with it or sell it.

Why let go of MUD? Metro may be done with it, but others are still working on it, and others are working on viable alternatives.

[dspain]

maybe the time has come to let go of MMUD as sad as that is, they dont wanna move forward with it or sell it.

Why let go of MUD? Metro may be done with it, but others are still working on it, and others are working on viable alternatives.

alternatives are ok if allowed by the IP holders. and metro does own it.
i'm not a hater and not against what you guys are doing over there but would suck if right at release time a judge orders a cease and desist and all that work gone.

[Gardner Denver]

alternatives are ok if allowed by the IP holders. and metro does own it.
i'm not a hater and not against what you guys are doing over there but would suck if right at release time a judge orders a cease and desist and all that work gone.

I'm still not convinced Metro would have a case if we do not distribute their content. Conceptually it is no different than making a program that reads, imports, and writes Excel or Word files. We've simply built a better mouse trap as it were. I could be mistaken, but I've been in this business a long time, and I've done this kind of thing before, with software from companies far larger than Metropolis, and I've never once been sued or ordered to stop.

[dspain]

alternatives are ok if allowed by the IP holders. and metro does own it.
i'm not a hater and not against what you guys are doing over there but would suck if right at release time a judge orders a cease and desist and all that work gone.

I'm still not convinced Metro would have a case if we do not distribute their content. Conceptually it is no different than making a program that reads, imports, and writes Excel or Word files. We've simply built a better mouse trap as it were. I could be mistaken, but I've been in this business a long time, and I've done this kind of thing before, with software from companies far larger than Metropolis, and I've never once been sued or ordered to stop.

i assure you they would have a case, and don't take my word for it, contact a lawyer, i too have been around a long time and have seen countless companies try to "duplicate" anothers works, bottom line is you cant take a program you like and clone it with the idea of "making it better" all b/c the company no longer sells it.

can you make a mud engine thats similiar, absolutely.

you did it before only b/c they didnt seek damages, if metro goes after Vitoc they will win hands down.

as i said im not against what you'll wanna achieve by far but its being approached totally wrong.

do i like windows vista? nope, can i make my own windows vista? nope.

can i make another o/s with similarities, absolutely.

there are several cases against developers of WG/MBBS mods for duping games, one such case was Swords & Sorcery from Logicom.

judge ordered cease and desist of the product, there were a few more as well one being where someone used portions of the mbbs source code to make their own bbs software.

rest assured all metro is waiting for is for it to be distro'd, once that happens the penalties go up WAY up.

tell Vitoc to submit me his fax# ill fax all the documents my lawyer sent me when i wanted to dupe Tele-Arena.

luckily for me Elwynor purchased the rights and i got the go ahead, w/o it i faced over 27 violations if Sean Ferrell had decided to pursue it including money to be paid in the event he felt i profited.

but as i said dont take my word for it, or take this post the wrong way
im not the one against you'll but being someone who was in a similiar situation i have ltos of knowledge on the subject,

[Gary Martin]

Dspain, you're being far too practical here. (and correct too, I might add)

I should also mention that Chris Combest, owner of Multi Service, is also a Lawyer by education.

[dspain]

Dspain, you're being far too practical here. (and correct too, I might add)

I should also mention that Chris Combest, owner of Multi Service, is also a Lawyer by education.

yeah as a developer myself i just want to see them succeed and only way i feel they can succeed is if they cover all angles early on.

with MajorMUD i feel he would be open for a business deal on a text version if only the messages could be gotten to him personally.

[Questman]

GreaterMUD is a great idea and should continue - it shouldn't focus on trying to use the IP of MajorMUD, but instead, just make a better game.

[dspain]

GreaterMUD is a great idea and should continue - it shouldn't focus on trying to use the IP of MajorMUD, but instead, just make a better game.

precisely, thats my point, take the "idea" of majormud and make a much better engine, new areas, quests, etc....