To Open Source or Not To Open Source?

[Questman]

Some decisions on Worldgroup's future need to be made. I've spend a ton on acquiring the software that I have, and the worst part is that there's a lot of people peddling fake versions of add-ons and server software that I own the rights to.

The idea is that to really advance, an almost complete re-write of the majority of the system is necessary, probably, other than the core (GSBL) itself.

This is something that I just can't do myself - I don't have the time, nor, in many cases, the expertise.

Much of it is really retro-fitting/applying current opensource solutions into the server engine - apache instead of GALWEBD, etc. And then having hooks to support modern technology - php and wikis, java, ajax, dhtml, etc. Supporting portal technologies like WSRP and JSR 168/286.

The product should probably be split into several - one for terminal for hobby BBS, one for client/server groupware stuff, and one for web.. maybe a fourth being an all-in-one box product for small businesses to host themselves.

There could probably be a bit more coding activity if it were open sourced, but that could, if done wrong, eliminate my ability to recoup any of the 5-figure money I've put out..

What do you guys think? What parts could be open sourced? Could we viably open source the server and keep the GCOMMLIB and/or GSBL closed? (Which is sort of the Java model)?

I'd appreciate time spent thinking this one through carefully before responding.

[Malakai]

My personal opinion is that I would want it to be all in one, not split up. You could still have an option to license it as either a hobby bbs setup or a corperate setup. Some thing like this:

Any one that runs a free BBS, a non-profit organization, or makes less than $5,000 (or whatever price) a year through the server, both directly or indirectly, would be considered a hobby BBS.

Any government agency, or large business that uses worldgroup, even if it doesn't make money directly on the bbs itself (aka doing database or video conferences for a large business) would have to license it as a corperate server.

Make them sign an agreement that stating that they have to give you information and access to the server, and that any license can be revoked if they have weren't honest about it.

I know that most people wouldn't use C/S now days, but if it was actually updated, it may have a chance to be better than ever.

About open source.. I think all aspects of the BBS that aren't tied in to the main server should definately be open sourced. When you really get in to problems is when some one messes with some thing that will start to make other modules and such not work correctly.

It'll probably be a bigger problem now than it it would have been many years ago, because there are less people on bbs systems to test them, and therefore both less modules being tested and less bug reports. The problems that I've had with wilderlands II and mega slots could be 100x worse.

With that being said, I like the idea of apache, java, php, and sql replacing some of the other stuff.

Updating the NNTP server, and replacing GHOST with a gameserver software, one that can run either on the same pc or on a different one, and uses some type of universal inter-bbs system, that would allow inter-bbs gameplay through dos doors, and if any one ever programmed interbbs worldgroup doors, and even a lot of the message networks that we can't get.

I could care less about the video conferencing stuff myself. So, maybe that could be an extra for the "corperate" version lol.

With all of that being said, I think being open sourced is a good idea for the person that knows what they're doing and wants to design his or her bbs the way he/she wants it, but are other BBS Sysops going to get to see and/or use those changes, and how will they be screened/tested before they're OK'd? They're probably not going to have major testing, if there ever are any public releases.

There are a lot of projects that were pay and went to open source over the years, and there really never seems to be any major updating to those projects, unless they were from the original creators. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[dspain]

Some decisions on Worldgroup's future need to be made. I've spend a ton on acquiring the software that I have, and the worst part is that there's a lot of people peddling fake versions of add-ons and server software that I own the rights to.

ok step one redo the complete reg schema where they have to come to you for future releases as the old codes wont work.


The idea is that to really advance, an almost complete re-write of the majority of the system is necessary, probably, other than the core (GSBL) itself.

exactly just what i said 3 days ago the core yeah, the gsbl definately. to compete in the market. i mean hell on ftp.game.org you can download mud codebases that support well over 256 users by more than 10000 thats written in maybe 500 lines of c.


This is something that I just can't do myself - I don't have the time, nor, in many cases, the expertise.

i got your back rick you know that.
i been studying alot of newer open sourced programs including phpbb and apache just to learn some of the ways they are coming up with things and tried to implement several smaller ideas into the core wgserver but needed to modify files.


Much of it is really retro-fitting/applying current opensource solutions into the server engine - apache instead of GALWEBD, etc. And then having hooks to support modern technology - php and wikis, java, ajax, dhtml, etc. Supporting portal technologies like WSRP and JSR 168/286.

IIs and apache support is much needed over galwebd


The product should probably be split into several - one for terminal for hobby BBS, one for client/server groupware stuff, and one for web.. maybe a fourth being an all-in-one box product for small businesses to host themselves.

i said this to netvillage in 2003 that it needed to be broken up so that the customer didnt have to buy some corporate package to host something like majormud.

1. hobby bbs, all terminal except for a web server a bbs should have a website.
all standard a/a baselines plus a web server for all supporting 256 users for a cheaper price.


2. corporate package which owuld be the full server and all c/s modules
same deal 256

3. enterprise, complete a/a and c/s along with a suite of applications


There could probably be a bit more coding activity if it were open sourced, but that could, if done wrong, eliminate my ability to recoup any of the 5-figure money I've put out..

in my opinion open source wouldnt recoup a dime. people would make their own versions with no need to buy it.
you need to do what peple like netvillage and all did.
get you a team of guys together and build it all.
once you make some money back then maybe start small open source like the baselines, etc.. but leave the server intact.


What do you guys think? What parts could be open sourced? Could we viably open source the server and keep the GCOMMLIB and/or GSBL closed? (Which is sort of the Java model)?

I'd appreciate time spent thinking this one through carefully before responding.

as i said rick get some guys together and make wg v3.50 or something completely your deal if i had the complete lib source i would have done this years ago.
i dont have the money to go out and buy it like you did so all i could work with is what i came across.

elwynor could have like a gcommdev department where working on the server is what they do, have online meetings and what not and only get some people you know arent in it to 'get' something out of it for instance lib sources.
5 guys owuld be plenty.
and step one would be a complete port over to .net
java is ok but a complete server in java would suck.
.net is the way to go and using the c# language is a plus

using Gcomm.Server;
using Gcomm.Accounting;

blah blah

serialize and deserialization over btrieve

and look at the power of c#, ganes released on the new server could be able to be added onto using c# scripting instead of having to release an editor or any source.

i speak with people daily in nntp,fido and irc chats.

they like wg but the price of a 256 user version from netvillage makes em run
and the simplicity of most of the games as well.
games like tele-arena could knock majormud out of the box if done right.
you got all the tools and software you could actually generate more revenue than netvillage. 10k for a 256 user bbs? who the hell will buy that?
and why would a buisiness buy it if it lacks features needed for a good online package?

[dspain]

My personal opinion is that I would want it to be all in one, not split up. You could still have an option to license it as either a hobby bbs setup or a corperate setup. Some thing like this:

Any one that runs a free BBS, a non-profit organization, or makes less than $5,000 (or whatever price) a year through the server, both directly or indirectly, would be considered a hobby BBS.

Any government agency, or large business that uses worldgroup, even if it doesn't make money directly on the bbs itself (aka doing database or video conferences for a large business) would have to license it as a corperate server.

Make them sign an agreement that stating that they have to give you information and access to the server, and that any license can be revoked if they have weren't honest about it.

nah you limit what the package can do therefore noone could lie about what they use it for. a hobby bbs gets a telnet server and webserver bigger ones get all the internet options, enterprise gets a loaded down server, etc.. etc...


I know that most people wouldn't use C/S now days, but if it was actually updated, it may have a chance to be better than ever.

give me time it will be more than updated

About open source.. I think all aspects of the BBS that aren't tied in to the main server should definately be open sourced. When you really get in to problems is when some one messes with some thing that will start to make other modules and such not work correctly.

baselines are damned near open source now, grab any of the zipped sources and one thing you'll notice all the baselines from wg 1.0 -> 4.0 are still being used they werent rewritten they were modded for the new features.
and thats where ISV's would come in. dont like the registry of users default? write another and have it replace GALREG on install.

arctic registry does that exact thing


It'll probably be a bigger problem now than it it would have been many years ago, because there are less people on bbs systems to test them, and therefore both less modules being tested and less bug reports. The problems that I've had with wilderlands II and mega slots could be 100x worse.

oh they're out there but 90% of the bbs's that are popular are in it for majormud.
once i can talk rick into letting me swing ta into the competition spotlight
more and more will come.
i mean hell i got a dos bbs that in the summer keeps 20+ online not for majormud but for tele-arena


With that being said, I like the idea of apache, java, php, and sql replacing some of the other stuff.

php replacing the forums has been something i been wanting to do for years with an export feature where your forums would be including in search engines of over 20 diff ones like altavista,msn,google,etc...


Updating the NNTP server, and replacing GHOST with a gameserver software, one that can run either on the same pc or on a different one, and uses some type of universal inter-bbs system, that would allow inter-bbs gameplay through dos doors, and if any one ever programmed interbbs worldgroup doors, and even a lot of the message networks that we can't get.

agreed, i been playing with running dos doors on the same pc and ran into a slew of features mainly cause wg doesnt support fossil i/o streams
making wg create its own drop file 'wgsdoor.usr'
and being redone in .net would eliminate that
i played with it and scrapped it everytime i work on it,


I could care less about the video conferencing stuff myself. So, maybe that could be an extra for the "corperate" version lol.

adult sites i have helped go online with wg wanted it for just that.
they could offer video chats with the 'girls' lol


With all of that being said, I think being open sourced is a good idea for the person that knows what they're doing and wants to design his or her bbs the way he/she wants it, but are other BBS Sysops going to get to see and/or use those changes, and how will they be screened/tested before they're OK'd? They're probably not going to have major testing, if there ever are any public releases.

i personally think that would kill future isv's cause everyone would download the o/s version and go with it.


There are a lot of projects that were pay and went to open source over the years, and there really never seems to be any major updating to those projects, unless they were from the original creators. Correct me if i'm wrong.

very right, alot of people go open source cause of licensing infringements that require they have to make it o/s
so they stick their initial release on sourceforge and forget about it while they develop it elsewhere which allows them to do under the tos

[Malakai]

I guess, to me, it still depends on which features would not be included in the hobbiest version. It's like this. While most people would only use the ansi interface, and occasionally a web page, for information, downloading, or some java games, there are a few that will utilize other features.

Video conferencing is some thing maybe 1 out of 50 hobbiest bbs systems may do. Sysops chatting with co-sysops through the webcam, etc. Like I said, I wouldn't personally use it, but you could have like 2-4 people/line max on the hobby version, and unlimited on the corperate version.

You could also put a credit card module in the corperate version, and may be some type of age checking/verification service.

After reading some of dspain's replies, it made me think of how Red Hat use to distribute their software. They had the free (or donationware/begware) download version, then they had the boxed retail version for like $49 or so, and then they had like some enterprize version for like $4000, which included both open source and non open source software, 100 hours of phone/tech support or so, etc. I'm not sure of the true legalities of mixing open source with non open source, but it's just another option to consider.

[dspain]

I guess, to me, it still depends on which features would not be included in the hobbiest version. It's like this. While most people would only use the ansi interface, and occasionally a web page, for information, downloading, or some java games, there are a few that will utilize other features.

my idea of a hobby-bbs / game bbs version would still support 256 users be 100% on the telnet side with the baselines like email,polls,forums, blah blah
just removes internet features like smtp,pop3,irc,etc...
the web interface would be galwebd

the enterprise versions would be a complete suite of a/a and c/s applications and the web interface would support
IIS/APACHE script mapping and php,js,xml,dhtml, ssl, the whole anchalada

thats where the bux would come in. one thing i would wanan remove is user limits like 8 user, 2 user,16 user
that worked well back in dialup days but today its nothing.

hobby bbs would support 256 max while c/s i wanna raise the bar to the 32767 barrier.

Video conferencing is some thing maybe 1 out of 50 hobbiest bbs systems may do. Sysops chatting with co-sysops through the webcam, etc. Like I said, I wouldn't personally use it, but you could have like 2-4 people/line max on the hobby version, and unlimited on the corperate version.

again as i said if someone wanted to build that kind of site on the c/s side than that would definately be an excellent feature to yhave at your disposal.
video support, video chat, adult web cam chat, possibilities are endless.

You could also put a credit card module in the corperate version, and may be some type of age checking/verification service.

well paypal offers free web buttons and shopping carts and best of all its free.
they charge less than POS credit network charges me to use the machine.

age verification is a good thought, how to go about this im not sure except for the use of a CC# put a hold on it for $1.00 aif it accepts it grant age 18+ access and credit the dollar back..shrug...

email sending a code to a newuser signup for autovalidation is definately happening.

After reading some of dspain's replies, it made me think of how Red Hat use to distribute their software. They had the free (or donationware/begware) download version, then they had the boxed retail version for like $49 or so, and then they had like some enterprize version for like $4000, which included both open source and non open source software, 100 hours of phone/tech support or so, etc. I'm not sure of the true legalities of mixing open source with non open source, but it's just another option to consider.

yeah could always have an open source community for the ISV's they still need a valid reg#
but i still think open source would kill the meaning of a good ISV
thats why they exist to make addons for some new feature,game,etc...
thats why wgs base installed modules are called baselines cause they come with it and as an isv you make a better one and release it either free or for charge.

[frcorey]

maybe full open source with everyone having to sign a contract. this way you still own the full source and if anyone trys to make thier own version you can sue them.

[Toyduck]

I'm not a programmer, I only learned what I needed to because with the early versions of MBBS you had too, or you couldn't even change the menus, much less add any features like games, etc.

It was the ever rising cost of the software that drove me away from Galacticomm finally. Small business and hobbiest users were, I felt, ignored.

I would like to see;

keep the software priced reasonable so you maximaze your user base
offer extended support at a fair price for us non-progrmmers who need help.
Keep a steady supply of resonable priced upgrades offered ala-carte and/or annual.
most importantly, be available.


--just my opinion.

Toyduck

[dspain]

I'm not a programmer, I only learned what I needed to because with the early versions of MBBS you had too, or you couldn't even change the menus, much less add any features like games, etc.

It was the ever rising cost of the software that drove me away from Galacticomm finally. Small business and hobbiest users were, I felt, ignored.

I would like to see;

keep the software priced reasonable so you maximaze your user base
offer extended support at a fair price for us non-progrmmers who need help.
Keep a steady supply of resonable priced upgrades offered ala-carte and/or annual.
most importantly, be available.


--just my opinion.

Toyduck

oh i totally agree themajorbbs was very pricey even for its time.
i mean lets see $249 gets you a 2 user ver then $249 for user six packs.

then they became WG and totally didnt worry about the hobbyist sysop and moved to a strictly buisiness atmosphere.
and gcomm forgot who put them on top in the first place, the small sysop.
and bbs's like synchronet,wwiv,wildcat all survived through the era and are still hitting today.
synchronet has a sysop base of well over 2,000

so restoring the project as rick has been doing is good but restoring the integrity of the name is gonna take work.
so cost efficiency is a #1 priority, i mean hell i havent seen a non 256 user code generated since 1998, lol

most update code i do to the 3.2/nt or 2.0/dos i release free of charge
most modules u find are free nowadays aside from some bigger ones which are still in the lower ranges of 25-100

[Toyduck]

Well, any support I can provide, I will. I was truly impressed when I first saw MBBS, which is why I shelled out the original $249, and bought the sixpacks, game addition, source editiion.etc. With my recent years working with web stuff, I don't think you can beat the original BBS concept.

I'm one of those individuals who believes in paying for his shareware, hell, I have even donated to freeware authors. I have tried programming and know how difficult it can be, and I don't mind paying. Hell, everyone is in business and needs to make a living.

- I just can't afford the Corporate Price on my Beer budget small business account...

Hopefully, I'll get my system back up and running again soon.

Toyduck

[dspain]

Well, any support I can provide, I will. I was truly impressed when I first saw MBBS, which is why I shelled out the original $249, and bought the sixpacks, game addition, source editiion.etc. With my recent years working with web stuff, I don't think you can beat the original BBS concept.

I'm one of those individuals who believes in paying for his shareware, hell, I have even donated to freeware authors. I have tried programming and know how difficult it can be, and I don't mind paying. Hell, everyone is in business and needs to make a living.

- I just can't afford the Corporate Price on my Beer budget small business account...

Hopefully, I'll get my system back up and running again soon.

Toyduck

i got all the installers if ya wanna go online ASAP, dos or nt.
i can even provide you a code til rick gets back, seems hes missing in action this week, grin

works too much

[Questman]

Prices, once the new Galacticomm company is up and running, will be quite affordable. We are interested in the hobby people.

The new Galacticomm exists, and we're (yes, I'm bringing two people in with many years of experience - one is the owner of a vast library of ISVs and between the two of us we have 80% of the ISV software ready to fix up and then release) in the process of setting everything up.

No more $10,000 ask prices for ancient software. Unreal.

We will need developers who will work cheap.

[dspain]

Prices, once the new Galacticomm company is up and running, will be quite affordable. We are interested in the hobby people.

The new Galacticomm exists, and we're (yes, I'm bringing two people in with many years of experience - one is the owner of a vast library of ISVs and between the two of us we have 80% of the ISV software ready to fix up and then release) in the process of setting everything up.

No more $10,000 ask prices for ancient software. Unreal.

We will need developers who will work cheap.

i've always had your back rick you know that, my problem is i start something and just stop working on it cause i feel it will never go anywhere

[Questman]

Dan, you've got a classic case of ADHD.

I do the same thing, but I force myself to complete the one project then move on... you should TRY to do that, it helps... but I know what you mean.

[dspain]

Dan, you've got a classic case of ADHD.

I do the same thing, but I force myself to complete the one project then move on... you should TRY to do that, it helps... but I know what you mean.

oh i do eventually, lol

like with my globals module been fighting the crach on that parse bug i had for over a week now.
now that i got that onbe time to move on im sure ill find another bug before i complete it.

[Toyduck]

Questman wrote>
"Prices, once the new Galacticomm company is up and running, will be quite affordable. We are interested in the hobby people.

The new Galacticomm exists, and we're (yes, I'm bringing two people in with many years of experience - one is the owner of a vast library of ISVs and between the two of us we have 80% of the ISV software ready to fix up and then release) in the process of setting everything up.

No more $10,000 ask prices for ancient software. Unreal.

We will need developers who will work cheap."
=======
Glad to hear this; get a good strong base of hobby users and small business users, and the larger business will eventually take notice.

I also feel better bringing my system back, knowing I won't be priced out again...

I would suggest calling the newest version something else than WorldGroup...never liked that name..has bad conotations for me, seems too....? I don't know...too something. Besides a new name could reflect today as well as yesterday.

--->just my simple opinion again.

Toyduck

[dspain]

Questman wrote>
"Prices, once the new Galacticomm company is up and running, will be quite affordable. We are interested in the hobby people.

The new Galacticomm exists, and we're (yes, I'm bringing two people in with many years of experience - one is the owner of a vast library of ISVs and between the two of us we have 80% of the ISV software ready to fix up and then release) in the process of setting everything up.

No more $10,000 ask prices for ancient software. Unreal.

We will need developers who will work cheap."
=======
Glad to hear this; get a good strong base of hobby users and small business users, and the larger business will eventually take notice.

I also feel better bringing my system back, knowing I won't be priced out again...

I would suggest calling the newest version something else than WorldGroup...never liked that name..has bad conotations for me, seems too....? I don't know...too something. Besides a new name could reflect today as well as yesterday.

--->just my simple opinion again.

Toyduck

agreed the name worldgroup now leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.

[Questman]

I agree. Worldgroup is a poor name, and it wasn't even trademarkable.

I was thinking of a return to The Major BBS, at least for the hobby BBS market.

The Major BBS v10.0, or The Major BBS 2007

[dspain]

I agree. Worldgroup is a poor name, and it wasn't even trademarkable.

I was thinking of a return to The Major BBS, at least for the hobby BBS market.

The Major BBS v10.0, or The Major BBS 2007

i agree the majorbbs is what people remember as the good product.

[Toyduck]

I think The Major BBS v.? would be best, I never liked the way MS started using ME, 2000, 2003, etc. (along with everyone else following along behind them).

The version numbers tell you where you are at specifically.. major upgrade or minor, etc.

I think you have 3 good product posibilities -

The Major BBS Basic (or DS) v7.0 (for DOS)
The Major BBS NT v4.0 (for Windows)
The Major BBS UX v1.0 (for Linus/Unix)

I think all three have possibilities, hobby users can run the DOS flavor on older technoloby (cheaper hardware) and still offer lots of services, NT users (WIN) can utilize the Windows platform and all that it offers, and finally, Linux for those who want utilize Unix resources and are more familier with that flavor of OS. Once you have a happy customer who starts in DOS (or DOS compatible OS) if he needs or wants to change OS, he can and stay with the same basic package.

I can see the marketing potentials already

- again my simple Opinion

[frcorey]

but dos is no longer sold too.

[dspain]

but dos is no longer sold too.

edit msdos.sys in a windows 98 install and do BootGUI = 0

[dspain]

I think The Major BBS v.? would be best, I never liked the way MS started using ME, 2000, 2003, etc. (along with everyone else following along behind them).

The version numbers tell you where you are at specifically.. major upgrade or minor, etc.

I think you have 3 good product posibilities -

The Major BBS Basic (or DS) v7.0 (for DOS)
The Major BBS NT v4.0 (for Windows)
The Major BBS UX v1.0 (for Linus/Unix)

I think all three have possibilities, hobby users can run the DOS flavor on older technoloby (cheaper hardware) and still offer lots of services, NT users (WIN) can utilize the Windows platform and all that it offers, and finally, Linux for those who want utilize Unix resources and are more familier with that flavor of OS. Once you have a happy customer who starts in DOS (or DOS compatible OS) if he needs or wants to change OS, he can and stay with the same basic package.

I can see the marketing potentials already

- again my simple Opinion

you could prepackage the dos/win/nt flavors all in one install
that way one cd can insytall on any of em you run a simple 16bit setup.exe it detects the OS and runs the installer

then have the reg key algorithim setup to activate either hobby version ,enterprise,etc...

[frcorey]

but dos is no longer sold too.

edit msdos.sys in a windows 98 install and do BootGUI = 0

err, and windows 98 is gone too,
but at least there will be some cdroms around for another year or so.

[dspain]

but dos is no longer sold too.

edit msdos.sys in a windows 98 install and do BootGUI = 0

err, and windows 98 is gone too,
but at least there will be some cdroms around for another year or so.

i got an original oem iso cd on my web server i give to people wanting to setup a dos system

[frcorey]

edit msdos.sys in a windows 98 install and do BootGUI = 0

err, and windows 98 is gone too,
but at least there will be some cdroms around for another year or so.

i got an original oem iso cd on my web server i give to people wanting to setup a dos system

how would I get a license for it?

[dspain]

err, and windows 98 is gone too,
but at least there will be some cdroms around for another year or so.

i got an original oem iso cd on my web server i give to people wanting to setup a dos system

how would I get a license for it?

i have OEM license kits for 98,2000,2003,xp home

those are the pretty boxes that come with an install disc and then a pack of keys.
microsoft sells it to open end distributors.

because i sell custom build pc systems i got em.

98 is so dead though people dont request it on their system when they come in the shop, lol

they want xp MCE or 2003

but to run a solid worldgroup dos system 98 is the ticket, dont need to auto-update it cause its gonna stay in dos shell anyhow.

[Toyduck]

Actually, I think DOS is going to be around a lot longer than many think. I have no problem getting DOS copies (legit ones). Not to mention all the DOS look-alikes around also.

- Novell DOS
- Caldera DOS
- MS DOS
- Compaq DOS

fact is, I have the complete source for a DOS system that tried to compete with DesQview by selling their source for a multi-user DOS, called Wendin-DOS, to developers at the time, works quite well (not as multi-user, none of them did, but as a single user it was very compatible).


Toyduck

[dspain]

Actually, I think DOS is going to be around a lot longer than many think. I have no problem getting DOS copies (legit ones). Not to mention all the DOS look-alikes around also.

- Novell DOS
- Caldera DOS
- MS DOS
- Compaq DOS

fact is, I have the complete source for a DOS system that tried to compete with DesQview by selling their source for a multi-user DOS, called Wendin-DOS, to developers at the time, works quite well (not as multi-user, none of them did, but as a single user it was very compatible).

i totally agree i have several versions of MS dos including the complete dos 6.22 / win 3.11 for workgroups bundle.

people still use dos alot, some say well thats whgat linux is a better dos, totally off on that one.
dos is still used by many even some bug companies to run simple services.



Toyduck

[Toyduck]

I think what Microsoft and a lot of the other large software companies forgot is the realistic cost involved in the constant upgrades. Most of the small business's I deal with that have small networks (5 - 50 users) are still using Win95 and/or Dos/Novell 3.1.

The owner wants to make a profit and for many, the benifits of the new software (and all the hardware you have to buy to use it) don't pan out. Particulary if they are not on the Internet.

Fact is - not many support companies here in Vegas bother with old systems, so I keep pretty busy. I cerainly won't turn down paying work because an owner doesn't want to upgrade

Toyduck

[Questman]

And, of course, FreeDOS.

Has anyone tried FreeDOS to see if it works with Phar Lap and MBBS/WG?

[dspain]

And, of course, FreeDOS.

Has anyone tried FreeDOS to see if it works with Phar Lap and MBBS/WG?

i tinkered wioth it once and 3com nic card drivers wouldnt initialize, they didnt detect the card, of course this was last year so they may have released an updated ver since.

[efgosser]

This is so kewl guys, I never knew. I will check out the Free DOS thing I have it, but never tried it. I could help with any dos apps, I am very avid in Borland C++ 3.1 but I stuggle with the windows Versions, Can't get the interface down. I guess I am just one of theose Coders only. Been through all of the MBBS v6.25 Code and was thinking as you all were. I was working on improving the TCP/IP portion of MBBSv6.25. Vircomms Mod was way to hard and didn't work very well.
Questman I have Vision Magazine for you, only One thay sent it to me when thay released it. I think it is the only on also. I also have some Screen Caps of the Demo System in 1993 I think. Am also getting ahold of hundreds/somewere around 900 or so of old MBBS people to get thouse mods that you are missing. Any help you need from me I will give.

[frcorey]

This is so kewl guys, I never knew. I will check out the Free DOS thing I have it, but never tried it. I could help with any dos apps, I am very avid in Borland C++ 3.1 but I stuggle with the windows Versions, Can't get the interface down. I guess I am just one of theose Coders only. Been through all of the MBBS v6.25 Code and was thinking as you all were. I was working on improving the TCP/IP portion of MBBSv6.25. Vircomms Mod was way to hard and didn't work very well.
Questman I have Vision Magazine for you, only One thay sent it to me when thay released it. I think it is the only on also. I also have some Screen Caps of the Demo System in 1993 I think. Am also getting ahold of hundreds/somewere around 900 or so of old MBBS people to get thouse mods that you are missing. Any help you need from me I will give.

mbbs has tcpip?

[efgosser]

Isn't that what I payed Vircomm $700.00 for in 1995? Oh yes Iv'e found it the oficial name was Vircom's MajorTCP/IP Release 1.76-6 for Major BBS 6.25. Oh just to let Questman and everyone else Had $22,000.00 into my BBS for 16 lines 486dx-66 and 46 moduals. Including the Developer kit for MBBS

[efgosser]

Ops Just tooo tiered... Sorry all for acting an azz... I have more than one reason to have strong interest in This project... I think you all who have interest are awsome people... Thanks...

[dspain]

Isn't that what I payed Vircomm $700.00 for in 1995? Oh yes Iv'e found it the oficial name was Vircom's MajorTCP/IP Release 1.76-6 for Major BBS 6.25. Oh just to let Questman and everyone else Had $22,000.00 into my BBS for 16 lines 486dx-66 and 46 moduals. Including the Developer kit for MBBS

major tcp/ip for mbbs had more bugs than features, they reworked the codebase in v2.00 and again in 2.10. i bought v2.14 then 2.20 and have found 2.20 to be more stable and the use of the text variables for displaying each users inet info is very useful.

[Info-Seeker]

I think you should take a good look at the other open source projects out there and how they make money... VMWare being 1 of the biggest. The distribute the software for free, and then charge by the hour for support, and do support contracts.

MajorBBS is complicated enough that support contracts is the way to go I think. If you sold the bbs, you would be required to do a good portion of that tech support for free... what are you going to get for a full on copy of the bbs? $399, and then some user modules?

You can get $100 an hour for support. You can even set up a golden support program and allow others who are qualified to be certified support experts that the company backs for a fee or what not..

either way, you could make a lot more off a reasonably priced support contract than you ever could selling the bbs. Plus, by open sourcing it you will get outside developers who will add to the project, just make sure you maintain the cvs tree and handle all the check ins and updates so you are at the center of the project.

Then you get all the benefit of the top coders, multiple programmers double and triple checking each others work making the tighest code possible while minimizing bugs, a huge developer network ensuring longevity and a future for your board, and income from the support contracts.

I have seen it done successfully many times... and will give you a foot hold in the community that will be hard to usurp with a pay product, especially if you continue the excellence that MajorBBS has been known for over the years. I ran 1 almost 12 years ago and it was my first and only stop for this new project. So much so, I am considering writing a custom term program for the Commodore to ensure I can use MBBS as the core of my service. You do not get that type of customer loyalty without some serious software behind you...

Good luck man,

Info-Seeker

[Syclops]

There are plenty of Open Source success stories. Take a look at DotNetNuke, Joomla, Boonex.

IMHO this should have been done years and years ago. It's sad to say, but right now for all intents and purposes WG is dead.

Let me clarify, this is how I describe Dead.

Logon to almost any WG Server No Users
Logon to WG Teleconference, No Users
Come here to participate in the Forums, less than 5 New Posts a Week.

Something has to be done to generate interest in WG again, if it isn't already too late.

[Questman]

Syclops, I would have. I just would require a reasonable donation from someone to do it, as I've sunk quite a bit into making the software available that I'm sort of forced to ask the small amount I ask for it.

I'm probably $10k in the hole on this stuff. I know most of you appreciate it, so I don't harp on it. But it's not chump change for me.